Today, Hunter is once again joined by former NACDL President, Martin Sabelli. This time, Hunter and Martin are discussing a memo he put out while President about the Ahmaud Arbery murder trial. In that trial, Martin felt that the defense counsel improperly used racism as a tactic in their defense. Martin put out the memo because he felt that those in the criminal defense community, those who fight against systems of racism aught not use the tools of the very system that actively incarcerates so many of their clients. As such, today’s episode is all about figuring out where the line is between individual advocacy and fighting systems of oppression.′